My dear friend Liz had this on her blog. She got it from her friend here.
Enjoy.
"I have lived.."
1. in 15 different houses (not including dorms in college) in my 37 years.
2. with the man of my dreams for 7 years, 356 days.
3. in the city and died in the suburbs.
4. for 5 glorious days on Martha's Vineyard...on my honeymoon!
5. with some very big secrets.
6. through my parent's divorce - even though I thought I would die.
7. in the light of God's love.
8. in Maryland, New York, Connecticut and Pennsylvania.
9. in a third story walk up when I was pregnant with my first child!
10. since the 1960's (okay well the very end of 1969 but that was the 60's!).
"I have witnessed..."
1. the beauty of my children's birth.
2. a rainstorm of shooting stars.
3. the tragedy of 9/11.
4. the coming together that tragedy can bring.
5. the powerful moving of God's Holy Spirit.
6. the peaceful death of my Grandmother.
7. my kids doing the "nakey" dance.
8. the power of motherhood.
9. fierce determination of love.
10. everyday miracles.
"I have heard..."
1. my husband say "I do".
2. the beauty of my children's first cry.
3. my inner voice of criticism.
4. my inner voice of love.
5. my babies call me mama.
6. my father tell me he is proud of me.
7. James Taylor in concert close to 10 times.
8. the inaudible call of God in my heart.
9. the Dora the Explorer theme song more times than anyone should.
10. the silence of death.
"I have lost..."
1. my mind on occasion.
2. my keys practically everyday.
3. the same pounds over and over again.
4. my passion for God - more than once.
5. my self confidence.
6. more socks than I can count - what is it with the dryer???
7. my innocence and optimism.
8. my best friend.
9. track of time when blogging!
10. the ability to fake it when I am mad, hurt, angry etc.
"I have found..."
1. God's grace really IS amazing.
2. a child's honesty to be refreshing.
3. that it DOES take a village to raise a child.
4. my passion for God - over and over again.
5. that motherhood is likely the most powerful force in nature.
6. spring after winter is the best gift in the world.
7. that diamonds are really sparkly and nice.
8. that to have a good marriage you must work at it.
9. the world is a seriously messed up place.
10. laughter is often the very best medicine.
"I love..."
1. Jesus - more than I can ever say.
2. my husband - more and more each day.
3. my children - with a love that is stronger than death.
4. my mother - with a grateful heart.
5. being a mother - more than I ever imagined I could.
6. Phish Food ice cream.
7. my engagement and wedding rings.
8. crawling into bed at night.
9. making love.
10. caffeine free diet coke.
"I can..."
1. hang a spoon from my nose and then flip it into my mouth.
2. pop most of my joints out of place and back in again.
3. go from zero to bitch in less than 10 seconds.
4. be the most devoted and loyal friend in the world.
5. teach my kids how to read and write.
6. try and see Jesus in everyone.
7. usually see both sides of a situation.
8. construct a three point argument in my head before the fight has begun.
9. forgive but not forget.
10. love until it hurts and then keep on loving.
"I loathe..."
1. the "isms"...racism, sexism, ageism, and on and on.
2. the ever widening gap between rich and poor.
3. the stigma in being different from the norm.
4. coffee of any flavor - you can dress it up but it still tastes bad.
5. spanking of children.
6. the awful lighting in dressing rooms - can't they work on that?
7. shaving my pits and legs.
8. brussel sprouts - ew.
9. WAR.
10. seeing my children in any kind of pain.
"I hope..."
1. that the war ends soon and that our men and women come home.
2. that we have good choices for the next President.
3. that I can begin to live as a real disciple of Jesus.
4. that my mom lives forever.
5. that my marriage gets better and better and better.
6. that my children grow up to be free thinkers and to love God and themselves.
7. that serving others as a way of life catches on like wildfire.
8. that my friend's post partum depression eases up really soon.
9. that my life will be authentic and inviting.
10. that I still make someone proud.
"I am trying..."
1. to broaden my horizons.
2. to be better at recycling.
3. to raise my children in a gentle and non-punitive environment.
4. to love more freely than I have in the past.
5. to educate my children about the plight of people around the globe.
6. to be a responsible inhabitant of the earth.
7. to be more consistent in prayer.
8. to perfect my pizza crust.
9. to be less judgemental.
10. to knit the perfect hat.
100 Things...
Wednesday, April 11, 2007
Posted by Beth at 6:33 PM
Labels: Authentic Life
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12 comments:
Great list, and you made the April 15th date! I hope everyone wins--but I think April is choosing the winner by a random drawing rather than by adjudicating anything.
When you say you "loathe spanking", what does that mean, and how does that fit with your reading of scripture?
It means I loathe the spanking of children. And in my research of this topic I do not believe that the Bible in ANY way advocates spanking. Here is a link and a quote from a Christianity Today article...
The "rod" in Revelation comes from the Greek word rhabdos which means a figurative rod for chastisement. In Proverbs, the "rod" is commonly translated from the Hebrew words mattah or shebet. Mattah is a rod that demonstrates spiritual power, such as Moses' rod (Ex. 4:2), Aaron's rod (Ex. 7:9), the sorcerer's rod (Ex. 7:12), and rods that symbolize authority (Num. 17:7). Shebet is the rod used as a tool by a shepherd or a teacher. It is a symbol of authority in the hands of a ruler, whether it is a scepter or an instrument of warfare and oppression. Nowhere is the rod used as a tool for the physical punishment of people.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/cpt/2003/002/6.50.html
I'm happy to discuss this further - as it is a topic near and dear to my heart.
Ugh. I lost my comment when Firefox crashed.
I'll start again, but not today. The first part of what I wrote was:
Thanks for clarifying, and I am encouraged that you didn't say, "I don't care what the bible says, what's that got to do with anything", etc.
To summarize what I had been writing - I was interested in your statement that "nowhere" is the rod used as a tool for the physical punishment of people.
As I started reading in Exodus, I see that your statement was holding up, it was used as a physical tool to whack various things, but not people, ie. rivers, dust, rocks, etc.
But, it can't just be a figurative and non-physical punishment in Exodus 21:20, can it?
And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
And in Proverbs where it speaks of "beating" with a rod, is that only figurative language as well?
From an abibical perspective, I don't know your children, so I don't have any thoughts about them specifically, but most of the children that I know whose parents say they don't believe in spanking don't respect or obey their parents most of the time, and the parents are fairly stressed about trying to keep them from beating up other kids to get their toy, running around into people, etc. If that is not your experience, I would be interested in hearing how it works for you - and would people who do know your children think well of them?
One of things we learned while we were at Providence Church of Pittsburgh, is from all of the excellent examples of parenting - and seeing children of all ages who have lived with these sorts of parenting, and spanking is just part of it. Heather and I will always remember being at the Calvettis when two of their children were arguing over a crayon, and Rochelle spoke so quietly, but firmly to them, and spoke of the deeper, heart issues of selfishness, etc. and I was somewhat dumbfounded, I guess - it was "just" a crayon, and they had a whole box of them to choose from. I don't remember if either of the children got a spank in that instance, but the wisdom that we saw poured out on their children was wonderful to see.
Okay, I think that is enough for today.
Jon,
It wasn't my comment about the rod not being used for physical punishment but rather the article in Christianity Today that I linked. In speaking of Proverbs a common line of thought is that the rod mentioned is more similar to the word for authority rather than an instrument for "beating". And in that quote from CT it explains what the 2 different hebrew words for rod mean in Proverbs...neither of them seem to suggest that God wants us to strike our children.
(as an aside I was interested that your example from Exodus was that the one using the rod would be punished)
I think that God's relationship to us is one of love and authority and it is my opinion that love comes first and authority flows from that love. Often when we are not responding to God's love or authority we have to deal with the consequences of our behavior.
This is what I choose to embrace with my children. My relationship with them is also one of love and authority - and they do know who is in charge. I choose to find ways to discipline them that are not punitive but rather gentle. If I am teaching them to treat others as they want to be treated then how am I modeling that for them if I am hitting them? I surely don't want to be hit if I do something wrong - and if I hit them then I am not treating them the way I hope to be treated. We have "House Rules" that everyone is expected to follow and when the rules are broken there are consequences...but none that involve physical punishment.
I don't go around asking others what they think of my children - but I am given good reports by teachers/caregivers/babysitters etc. At the Tuesday morning Bible Study the caregivers are always telling me that my oldest is the very nurturing and good with the younger kids and that my other 2 are well behaved. Now believe me they have their moments - and they do disobey but I find them to be delightful for the most part.
No parenting style is 100% effective and I can site many many cases where kids who were spanked are disrespectful to their parents and other adults and have more of a tendency to hit other children then those who aren't spanked. But we can all site things that back up our stance. I respect the fact that people make different parenting choices - do I wish no one would spank their kids? Sure I do...I hate the thought of a child being hit by the very person they trust the most...but I realize that not everyone is going to see it my way.
I do not think the Bible advocates spanking - I think Jesus was a gentle man who took special care with children. I don't think that any of the words of Christ can be taken in any way to advocate spanking and in my journey to be more like Christ - it has been my decision to embrace that gentility. I choose to use gentle discipline to gently teach my children.
This is a really interesting conversation. I hope you all don't mind if I join in. Hi Jon-- I haven't met you personally, but Heather and I are in bible study together. :-) I have two daughters, an 11 year old and an almost 2 year old.
Beth, I completely agree with your sentiments about God's relationship with us being one of love and authority. I also agree that looking at how Jesus treated others-- and the relationship he seeks with us--is a wealthy source of what our relationships with our children should aspire to.
Regarding the scriptural bases in the Old Testament, the musings on the rod verses at http://aolff.com/?page_id=9 might be helpful at explaining another interpretation of these verses. In particular, the bottom of page 2 (http://aolff.com/?page_id=9&page=2) explains what Shebet is about and how its meaning is more akin to "come let us reason together" than literally beating someone into reason (I am not even sure if someone can be beaten into reason).
I also wanted specifically to respond to this part of Jon's post: "I don't know your children, so I don't have any thoughts about them specifically, but most of the children that I know whose parents say they don't believe in spanking don't respect or obey their parents most of the time, and the parents are fairly stressed about trying to keep them from beating up other kids to get their toy, running around into people, etc. If that is not your experience, I would be interested in hearing how it works for you - and would people who do know your children think well of them?"
As a non-spanking gentle Christian mother, I have some insight into what my life looks like on a daily basis. Re whether people think well of my children, you can ask Beth because my oldest daughter Kathryn is in youth group. :-) Joking aside, people seem to think very well of the young lady my daughter is growing into. People at church also tell me that my daughter Zoe is very caring and patient and they enjoy taking care of her. However, I don't want to put too much stock into my whether my children always obey or are close to "perfect" as a barometer for any kind of parenting approach. My children make mistakes all the time, but that's how they learn-- and I make mistakes and learn from them too! Praise God that he loves me anyway and is always there when I return to him.
Regarding permissive parenting, I have noticed that many different kinds of parents can be permissive. Often times, parents who spank are prone to permissiveness because they really hate spanking even though they believe it must be done. So they interpret everything as an accident ("he didn't mean to hit poor Sally") instead of addressing the troubling behavior (hitting) because they believe they need to spank to discipline and they don't want to spank their children. At the other end of the permissiveness spectrum are parents who don't spank their children but also don't do anything else-- not much discipline is involved, it's more of the parents pleading with the children to "behave".
Permissivenes to me is basically passive parenting-- parenting from the couch-- metaphorically if not literally. While I am reminding my toddler that chairs are for sitting, not standing, I am moving toward her to help her sit if she needs extra help besides my reminder. If she stands again, then she is showing me she isn't ready to use a chair right now and she is taken off the chair and we do something else. I am active. I am reasoning together with her, not hollering commands from my perch at the stove or computer (or couch).
I guess this also touches into the area of what punishment is and whether it's necessary to learn-- to reason together. I don't believe that punishment is necessary to learn, while I also believe that discipline most certainly is. When I take my toddler off the chair because she is showing me by her behavior that she isn't ready to sit on a chair right now, that's it. The chair is gone and she can try again later to be successful. But nothing else, IMO, is needed. Pain--physical or emotional--doesn't need to be a part of the equation to make this learning successful. Actually, I believe that extra pain (outside of the pain that is a natural or logical consequence of the behavior), or the prospect of it, actually hinders learning.
While punishment is not used at my house, consequences are seen frequently. Consequences help us learn. When my older daughter leaves her roller skates in the front yard and rain comes and they're ruined, that's a consequence of being irresponsible with her belongings. She will need to save her money to buy new roller skates if she wants to replace them. No further "extra" punishment by me is necessary. Any pain involved-- of being upset at her mistake, of not being able to roller skate until she can afford new skates-- is inherent in the consequences of her actions.
When my younger daughter throws a toy, that toy is taken away because she has shown me that she is not ready to play with it safely (she does get another chance the next day or whenever I think she is ready to try again). No extra punishment is involved, but reasonable and related consequences are present because they're a part of life. I impose some on my children to help them learn (that toys aren't for throwing, that we don't stand on chairs) and sometimes life imposes them for me (that we need to take care of our property or it will be ruined).
Does not using pain or punishment mean everything and everyone at my house is always happy? No! ;-) When my toddler is taken off the chair for the moment, she may have some big feelings about that. She has cried in this situation before. And that's fine with me. She's allowed to have her feelings-- I am not scared of them (and thus permissive and always letting her have her way so she never cries) but neither am I threatened by them (and thus punishing her by spanking or a time out or whatever for having feelings about not being allowed on the chair right now).
Okay, I guess those are my thoughts for now. I hope they have been a helpful window into what non-spanking, active Christian parenting can look like! ;-)
Julia
nice list, beth - and good conversation in here!
~liz
www.smithical.com
Jon,
I think it would be helpful for you to describe what takes place during a spanking (the talking that happens first, your calmness, etc.) I know the spanking isn't the most important part, and that it's never done in anger. I think this style of discipline is drastically different from most people's perceptions of spanking.
-Kelly
That's an interesting point Kelly - but it is still so hard for me to wrap my mind around. If the spanking isn't done in anger - and it isn't the most important part then why do it? Aren't there better consequences that can be used to teach a lesson rather than striking a child? And don't you think that the heart of the lesson can be lost in the physical pain of spanking?
I guess I am just at a loss as to why striking a child has to be part of their learning process.
Julia - your descriptions of "permissive" parenting are good. The pleading parent is mostly what I am talking about. You hint at distracting a child with "something else", though that might not be what you really meant - I have talked to some parents who seem to bypass discipline or consequences by drawing the child's attention to something else. While I agree that every single thing needs to be corrected, and made a big deal out of it, I do think that not mentioning the wrong action to the child and merely switching attention to something else teaches the wrong message. The child may or may not realize he has been distracted every time, though my guess is that they do more than we might expect.
Kelly - Sure. I don't really remember what I grew up with, I think there was more anger or frustration than what we aim at for our children. Heather and I were recently talking about this, and she said that she needs to make sure to not do "quick spanks" that she can be angry with Jonathan and disciplining herself to walk to another room to have a talk is one
way of making sure that she is under control. I do recall one situation where I should have taken more time with Jonathan, but I think that for the most part, that isn't something I struggle with.
A "typical" scenario is something like the following... Hrm, maybe that isn't possible to describe - it seems like there are lots of different scenarios that happen.
One way is something that Jonathan deliberately does something he knows he shouldn't do, checking to see if I am looking first, and goes ahead and does it anyway. (sometimes I let him see that I am looking to see if that is enough to decide on his own whether he should do it or not. I am also fond of raising my eyebrows just slightly, so he knows I am not so sure that he is about to make a wise decision; and he understands what that means. Often, his play will get a little rough, or he will be going farther away than might be appropriate, so he'll look back to see my expression to help him decide whether to calm down or continue, etc)
To continue my scenario - we will walk to the other room, I might carry him, or else ask him to follow me. He then sits on my lap facing me, and we talk for a little while. If he is mad about not being allowed to do whatever he wanted to do, it usually takes longer. Angry wailing, etc. is not allowed for the most part, and I tell him to calm down and get control of himself. If you have ever heard Jonathan cry, you might hear him make this funny sort of crying while breathing noise that he learned when I was trying to teach him to relax by breathing nicely and not getting all worked up. It mostly worked, though the unfortunate side-effect is that if we are somewhere where we need to be quiet, he will make that noise instead of being quiet, but it mostly is fine.
I try to maintain eye contact, and that is a good indicator of how he is feeling - he tends to look away if he is still upset and not really repentant. The conversation varies depending on whether it is something we have talked about before, how long ago did we last talk about it, is it something that he should have been able to deduce even though we didn't specifically address this particular issue before, ie. it falls under the category of caring for his brother - was he recently told to not drag Noah around by the arm, and five minutes later dragging him by his leg, etc.
These conversations are always very quiet and calm. And depending on how worked up he is, involve holding and kissing and reassuring, etc. Less often, but somewhat regularly, we will talk about the importance of honoring his parents, and I might read the promise God gives to us for honoring our parents. Or I might talk about how it is my job to train him up to righteousness, and talk about definitions of different words: sin, holiness, sanctification, obedience.
The actual spank doesn't have to be all that hard, Heather talks about when she was a child that knowing she had disappointed (or maybe she uses a different word) her mom was far worse than a spank. Sometimes we cry over his sin together, even prior to a spank. Sometimes we talk about whether spanks are effective or not, if he thinks they are a good method for helping him to remember, etc. Sometimes we agree that a particular spank wasn't all that good and he needs another one. I think only once or twice has he asked for the initial spank. I have heard other children request a spank - one friend says that he thinks his son can see himself not acting the way he wants "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." and asks for help to do that which is right.
On Sunday, Jonathan had been having a very rough day - the only excuse (not a reason) I could think of was that we had been up quite late the day before, so he was more tired than usual. There had been a series of various incidents, I don't remember what they were, but at one point, we had left the sanctuary to go talk for a while. After I spanked him, I said that I didn't think that the spank had made all that much difference, and he asked whether it was because he didn't cry. I said that wasn't the reason - (sometimes he cries and sometimes he doesn't) - but that it just didn't seem like it mattered to him. He agreed, and I gave him another one. Late at night he got a spank (and was wearing a diaper - he hadn't gotten a spank while wearing a diaper in a long time), and we both looked at each other and burst out laughing - he used to be able to get spanks through the diaper - ie. the actual pain wasn't anything to do with it, since I doubt he really could feel very much.
Incidentally, both Heather and another friend of ours have long said that "spanks don't work" for either of the moms, and the dads are somewhat mystified by what that means. I did recently discover that Jonathan has been getting milk after a spank - and so the other day when he got a spank for being impatient about waiting for Noah to have milk - he got what he wanted - milk, so I told Heather that she should change that.
After getting a spank, we generally sit for a while longer. Again, "sad" crying is allowed, but "angry" crying is not. More talking with similar topics as before - I would guess that most times there aren't two long talks, but it depends on how things go I think.
I see that I have taken so much time to write this that now Beth has responded again. I do agree that it isn't the most important part, but I do think that it is an important part. I have not seen Jonathan get confused by getting a spank during a talk. I do need to run, since I am at work -- I had been doing a task where I could be talking to a woman in our technical support department, but now I have to go downstairs to further diagnose the problem, and this is probably long enough for now anyway.
Ah - I finally understand what you wrote in your response about the Exodus passage - yes the one holding the rod will be punished if the servant dies, but that implies that one, there is a way for the rod to be used where he doesn't die, and two, there is a way to use the rod where he does die. I don't see how that cannot be referring to physical striking.
And as for the "nowhere" comment being yours, right CT referred to it, but it is still untrue.
Beth,
I'm still trying to figure out the best way to train my children. I know I haven't always been consistent, and I've definitely made mistakes. Currently, I'm trying to save spanking for situations of obvious disobedience. I think learning to obey is one of the most important lessons. (We often talk with Hannah about how we have to obey God too.) I like the idea of natural consequences, but I'm curious about what those who don't spank use as the natural consequence for not obeying. Hannah knows that a spanking follows outright disobedience, and I think it's helpful to have that set in place. I don't have to think of a punishment on the spot and she knows what to expect. I also like it that a spanking is over and done with quickly. As for whether the heart of the lesson is lost in the pain of the spanking, that hasn't happened in my experience. Even when Hannah was very little (like before she turned two) we would often hear her talking to herself about the things we had said during her last spanking.
-Kelly
Thanks Jon and Kelly, those are helpful explanations to me as to your perspectives.
I suppose the reason I don't save certain punishments for certain behaviors is that I want my kids to know that bad behavior is bad behavior whether it is disobeying me or not treating someone else the way they want to be treated. I don't want them to avoid certain behaviors becasue they might receive a more severe punishment...that isn't why I avoid sin. I don't fear God's punishment...I love God and I want to abide by the things He tells me are best. In turn I want my kids to obey out of love for me and because the genuinely believe (on some subconscious level) that I want what is best (not good or adequate) for them.
My desire of for my children to know of God's love through the relationship I am developing with them now. I just cannot reconcile that with spanking.
In terms of natural consequences -often it is something as simple as if Jack isn't sharing a toy - then he is showing me that he cannot handle playig with that toy right now and the toy goes away. The consequence of his not sharing is that he cannot continue to do what he wanted to do. When he is ready to apologize for his behavior he does so and then I decide when he can have the toy back. If Annie or Lucy is talking back to me in willful disobedience then the conversation is stopped immediately. I explain to them that I will not tolerate that tone of voice, those words or whatever it is. Normally they apologize right away - the natural consequence to treating someone badly is a break in the relationship. They say sorry for their attitude and for hurting my feelings and then we forgive and move on. Now we may have a day here and there where it is constant...where I am forever ending conversations of taking toys away...and it isn't easy...and it isn't over quickly. But again, I see that over and over in my relationship with God. I struggle through the same things over and over and he gently guides me back to Himself.
My children know what to expect if they misbehave - the consequences are different than spanking but they know when they have done wrong and they know there will be a consequence.
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